William Laud’s "Conference with Fisher"
Epistle Dedicatory, p. i-xviii.

A

R E L A T I O N

OF

The Conference

BETWEENE

WILLIAM LAWD,

Then, Lrd. Bifhop of St. D A V I D S

NO W,

Lord Arch-Bishop of CANTERBVRY

And Mr. Fisher the Jesuite, by the Command of

KING JAMES of ever

Blessed Memorie.

With an Answer to such Exceptions as

A. C. takes against it.

By the sayd Most Reverend Father in GOD,

WILLIAM,

Lord Arch-Bishop Of CANTERBURY.

LONDON,

Printed by Richard Badger, Printer to the P R I N C E,

HIS HIGHNES.

M D C X X X I X.

 [iii]

 [Title Page of Epistle]

TO

HIS MOST SACRED MAJESTY,

C H A R L E S,

BY THE GRACE OF GOD,

KING OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, AND IRELAND, DEFENDER

OF THE FAITH, &c.

 

DREAD SOVEREIGN,

   This tract will need patronage, as great as may be had, that is yours. Yet, when I first printed part of it, I presumed not to ask any, but thrust it out at the end of another’s labours, that it might seem, at least, to have the same patron, your royal Father of blessed memory, as the other work, on which this attended, had.1 But now I humbly beg for it your Majesty’s patronage; and leave withal, that I may declare to your most excellent Majesty, the cause why this tract was then written: why it stayed so long before it looked upon the light: why it was not then thought fit to go alone, but rather be led abroad by the former work: why it comes now forth both with alteration and addition: and why this addition made not more haste to the press than it hath done.

[iv]   The cause why this discourse was written, was this: I was, at the time of these Conferences with Master Fisher, Bishop of S. David’s; and not only directed, but commanded, by my blessed master, King James, to this Conference with him. He, when we met,2 began with a great protestation of seeking the truth only, and that for itself. And certainly, truth, especially in religion, is so to be sought, or not to be found. He that seeks it with a Roman bias, or any other,3 will run counter when he comes near it, and not find it, though he come within kenning of it. And therefore I did most heartily wish, I could have found the Jesuit upon that fair way he protested to go. After the Conference ended I went, whither my duty called me, to my diocese; not suspecting any thing should be made public, that was both commanded and acted in private. For W. I., the publisher of the Relation of the First Conference with D. White, the late reverend and learned Bishop of Ely, confesses plainly: "That Master Fisher was straitly charged upon his allegiance, from his Majesty that then was, not to set out, or publish what passed in some of these Conferences, till he gave licence, and until M. Fisher and they might meet, and agree, and confirm under their hands, what was said on both sides."4 He says farther, "That M. Fisher went to D. White’s house, to know what he would say about the Relation which he had set out."5 So then, belike M. Fisher had set out the Relation of that Conference before he went to D. White to speak about it. And this notwithstanding the King’s restraint upon him, upon his allegiance. Yet to D. White it is said he went, but to what other end than to put a scorn upon him, I cannot see. For he went to his house to know "what he would say about that Relation of the Conference, which he had set out before." In my absence from London, M. Fisher used me as well. For with the same care of his allegiance, and no more, "He spread [v] abroad papers of this Conference, full enough of partiality to his cause, and more full of calumny against me."6 Hereupon I was in a manner forced to give M. Fisher’s Relation of the Conference, an answer, and to publish it. Though for some reasons, and those then approved by authority, it was thought fit I should set it out in my chaplain’s name, R. B., and not in my own. To which I readily submitted.

   There was a cause also, why at the first, the Discourse upon this Conference stayed so long, before it could endure to be pressed. For the Conference was in May, 1622.7 And M. Fisher’s paper was scattered and made common, so common, that a copy was brought to me, being none of his special friends, before Michaelmas. And yet this Discourse was not printed till April, 1624. Now that you may know how this happened, I shall say for myself, It was not my idleness, nor my unwillingness to right both myself and the cause, against the Jesuit, and the paper which he had spread, that occasioned this delay. For I had then most honourable witnesses, and have some yet living, that this Discourse, [vi] such as it was when A. C. nibbled at it, was finished long before I could persuade myself to let it come into public view. And this was caused partly by my own backwardness to deal with these men, whom I have ever observed to be great pretenders for truth and unity, but yet such as will admit neither, unless they and their faction may prevail in all; as if no reformation had been necessary. And partly because there were about the same time, three Conferences held with Fisher. Of these this was the third; and could not therefore conveniently come abroad into the world, till the two former were ready to lead the way, which till that time they were not.

   And this is in part the reason also, why this tract crept into the end of a larger work. For since that work contained in a manner the substance of all that passed in the two former Conferences, and that this third, in divers points, concurred with them and depended on them, I could not think it substantive enough to stand alone. But besides this affinity between the Conferences, I was willing to have it pass as silently as it might, at the end of another work, and so perhaps little to be looked after, because I could not hold it worthy, nor can I yet, of that great duty and service which I owe to my dear mother the Church of England.

   There is a cause also, why it looks now abroad again with alteration and addition. And it is fit I should give your Majesty an account of that too. This tract was first printed in the year 1624. And in the year 1626, another Jesuit, or the same, under the name of A. C., printed a Relation of this Conference,8 and therein took exceptions to some particulars, and endeavoured to confute some things delivered therein by me. Now being in years, and unwilling to die in the Jesuit’s debt, I have in this Second Edition done as much for him, and somewhat more. For he did but skip up and down, and labour to pick a hole here and there, where he thought he might fasten; and where it was too hard for [vii] him, let it alone. But I have gone thorough with him; and I hope, given him a full confutation; or at least such a bone to gnaw, as may shake his teeth, if he look not to it. And of my addition to this Discourse, this is the cause; but of my alteration of some things in it, this9 A. C. his curiosity to winnow me, made me in a more curious manner fall to sifting of myself, and that which had formerly passed my pen. And though (I bless God for it,) I found no cause to alter any thing that belonged either to the substance or course of the Conference: yet somewhat I did find which needed better and clearer expression, and that I have altered, well knowing I must expect curious observers on all hands.

   Now, why this additional answer to the Relation of A. C. are no sooner forth, hath a cause too, and I shall truly represent it. A. C.’s Relation of the Conference was set out, 1626. I knew not of it in some years after; for it was printed among divers other things of like nature, either by M. Fisher himself, or his friend A. C. When I saw it, I read it over carefully, and found myself not a little wronged in it; but the Church of England, and indeed the cause of religion, much more. I was before this time, by your Majesty’s great grace and undeserved favour, made Dean of your Majesty’s Chapel Royal, and a Councillor of State; and hereby, as the occasions of those times were, made too much a stranger to my books. Yet for all my busy employments, it was still in my thoughts to give A. C. an answer. But then I fell into a most dangerous fever; and though it pleased God, beyond all hope, to restore me to health, yet long I was before I recovered such strength, as might enable me to undertake such a service.10 And since that time, how I have been detained, and in a manner forced upon other many, various, and great occasions, your Majesty knows best. And how of late I have been used by the scandalous and scurrilous pens of some bitter men, (whom [viii] I heartily beseech God to forgive,) the world knows; little leisure and less encouragement given me to answer a Jesuit, or set upon other services, while I am under the prophet’s affliction; between the "mouth that speaks wickedness, and the tongue that sets forth deceit, and slander me as thick, as if I were not their own mother’s son." [Ps.1.19,20.]11 In the midst of these libellous outcries against me, some divines of great note and worth in the Church, came to me one by one, and no one knowing of the other’s coming, (as to me they protested,) and persuaded with me to reprint this Conference in my own name. This they thought would vindicate my reputation, were it generally known to be mine. I confess, I looked round about these men and their motion; and at last, my thoughts working much upon themselves, I began to persuade myself that I had been too long diverted from this necessary work; and that perhaps there might be in voce hominum, tuba Dei, "in the still voice of men, the loud trumpet of God," which sounds many ways, sometimes to the ears, and sometimes to the hearts of men, and by means which they think not of. And as S. Augustine speaks, "A word of God there is, quod nunquam tacet, sed non semper auditur, ‘which though it be never silent, yet is not always heard.’"12 That it is never silent, is His great mercy; and that it is not always heard, is not the least of our misery. Upon this motion I took time to deliberate, and had scarce time for that, much less for the work; yet at last, to every of these men I gave this answer: That M. Fisher, or A. C. for him, had been busy with my former Discourse and that I would never reprint that, unless I might gain time enough to answer that which A. C. had charged afresh both upon me and the cause. While my thoughts were thus at work, your Majesty fell upon the same thing, and was graciously pleased not to command, but [ix] to wish, me to reprint this Conference, and in mine own name; and this openly, at the Council-table, in Michaelmas Term, 1637.13 I did not hold it fit to deny, having in all the course of my service obeyed your Majesty’s honourable and just motions as commands; but craved leave to show, what little leisure I had to do it, and what inconveniences might attend upon it. When this did not serve to excuse me, I humbly submitted to that, which I hope was God’s motion in your Majesty’s. And having thus laid all that concerns this Discourse, before your gracious and most sacred Majesty, I most humbly present you with the book itself; which as I heartily pray you to protect, so do I wholly submit it to the Church of England, with my prayers for her prosperity, and my wishes that I were able to do her better service.

   I have thus acquainted your Majesty with all occasions which both formerly and now again have led this Tract into the light; in all which I am a faithful relater of all passages, but am not very well satisfied who is now my adversary. M. Fisher was at the Conference. Since that I find A. C. at the print: and whether these be two or but one Jesuit, I know not, since scarce one amongst them goes under one name. But for my own part, and the error is not great, if I mistake, I think they are one, and that one, M. Fisher. That which induces me to think so is, first, the great inwardness of A. C. with M. Fisher, which is so great as may well be thought to neighbour upon identity. Secondly, the style of A. C. is so like M. Fisher’s that I doubt it was but one and the same hand that moved the pen. Thirdly, A. C. says expressly, "That the Jesuit himself made, the Relation of the first Conference with D. White:" [A. C. p. 67.] and in the [x] title-page of the work that Relation as well as this is said to be made by A. C. and published by W. I. Therefore A. C. and the Jesuit are one and the same person, or else one of these places hath no truth in it.

   Now, if it be M. Fisher himself, under the name of A. C., then what needs these words: "The Jesuit could be content to let pass the Chaplain’s censure as one of his ordinary persecutions for the Catholic faith, but A. C. thought it necessary for the common cause to defend the sincerity and truth of his relation, and the truth of some of the chief heads contained in it?"14 In which speech, give me leave to observe to your sacred Majesty how grievously you suffer him and his fellows to be persecuted for the Catholic faith, when your poor subject and servant cannot set out a true copy of a Conference held with the Jesuit, jussu superiorum, but by and by the man is "persecuted." God forbid I should ever offer to persuade a persecution in any kind, or practise it in the least: for, to my remembrance, I have not given him or his so much as coarse language. But, on the other side, God forbid, too, that your Majesty should let both laws and discipline sleep for fear of the name of persecution; and, in the meantime, let M. Fisher and his fellows angle in all parts of your dominions for your subjects. If in your grace and goodness you will spare their persons, yet I humbly beseech you see to it, that they be not suffered to lay either their wheels, or bait their hooks, or cast their nets in every stream, lest that tentation grow both too general and too strong. I know they have many devices to work their ends; but if they will needs be fishing, let them use none but lawful nets.15 Let us have no dissolving [xi] of oaths of allegiance; no deposing, no killing of kings; no blowing up of states to settle quod volumus, that which fain they would have in the Church; with many other nets as dangerous as these; for if their profession of religion were as good as they pretend it is, if they cannot compass it by good means I am sure they ought not to attempt it by bad; for, if they will do evil that good may come thereof," [Rom. iii. 8.] the Apostle tells me "their damnation is just."

   Now, as I would humbly beseech your Majesty to keep a serious watch upon these fishermen, which pretend S. Peter, but fish not with his net; so would I not have you neglect another sort of anglers in a shallower water; for they have some ill nets too; and if they may spread them when and where they will, God knows what may become of it. These have not so strong a back abroad as the Romanists have, but that is no argument to suffer them to increase. They may grow to equal strength with number; and factious people at home, of what sect or fond opinion soever they be, are not to be neglected, partly because they are so near—and it is ever a dangerous fire that begins in the bed-straw—and partly because all those domestic evils which threaten a rent in Church or State, are with far more safety prevented by wisdom than punished by justice. And would men consider it right, they are far more beholding to that man that keeps them from falling than to him that takes them up, though it be to set the arm or the leg that is broken in the fall.

   In this Discourse I have no aim to displease any, nor any hope to please all. If I can help on to truth in the Church, and the peace of the Church together, I shall be glad, be it in any measure. Nor shall I spare to speak necessary truth out of too much love of peace; nor thrust on unnecessary truth to the breach of that peace which once broken is not so easily soldered again. And if for necessary truth’s sake only, any man will be offended, nay take, nay snatch at that offence which is not given, I know no fence for that. It is truth, and I must tell it: it is the Gospel, and I must preach it. [I Cor. ix. 16.] And far safer it is in this case to bear anger from men than a "woe" from God. And where the foundations of faith are shaken, be it by superstition or profaneness, he that puts [xii] not to his hand, as firmly as he can, to support them, is too wary, and hath more care of himself than of the cause of Christ; and it is a wariness that brings more danger in the end than it shuns; for the Angel of the Lord issued out a curse against "the inhabitants of Meroz, because they came not to help the Lord, to help the Lord against the mighty." [Judg. v. 23.] I know it is a great ease to let every thing be as it will, and every man believe and do as he list; but whether governors in State or Church do their duty therewhile, is easily seen, since this is an effect of "no king in Israel." [Judg. xvii. 6.]

   The Church of Christ upon earth may be compared to a hive of bees, and that can be nowhere so steadily placed in this world but it will be in some danger; and men that neither for the hive nor the bees have yet a great mind to the honey; and having once tasted the sweet of the Church’s maintenance, swallow that for honey which one day will be more bitter than gall in their bowels. Now, the King and the Priest, more than any other, are bound to look to the integrity of the Church in doctrine and manners, and that in the first place; for that is by far the best honey in the hive. But, in the second place, they must be careful of the Church’s maintenance too, else the bees shall make honey for others, and have none left for their own necessary sustenance, and then all is lost; for we see it in daily and common use, that the honey is not taken from the bees, but they are destroyed first. Now, in this great and busy work, the King and the Priest must not fear to put their hands to the hive, though they be sure to be stung; and stung by the bees whose hive and house they preserve. It was King David’s case, God grant it be never yours. "They came about me," saith the Psalm, "like bees." [Ps. cxviii. 12.]16 This was hard usage enough, yet some profit, some honey, might thus be gotten in the end. And that is the King’s case. But when it comes to the Priest, the case is altered; they come about him like wasps, or like hornets rather—all sting and no honey there;—and all this many tines for no offence, nay, sometimes for service done them, would they see it. But you know Who said, "Behold I come shortly, and My reward [xiii] is with Me, to give to every man according as his works shall be." [Rev. xxii. 12.] And He Himself is so "exceeding great a reward," [Gen. xv. 1.] as that the manifold stings which are in the world, howsoever they smart here, are nothing when they are pressed out with that "exceeding weight of glory" [Rom. viii. 18.] which shall be revealed.

   Now, one thing more let me be bold to observe to your Majesty in particular, concerning your great charge, the Church of England. It is in a hard condition. She professes the ancient Catholic faith, and yet the Romanist condemns her of novelty in her doctrine; she practices Church government as it hath been in use in all ages and all places where the Church of Christ hath taken any rooting, both in and ever since the Apostles’ times, and yet the Separatist condemns her for Antichristianism in her discipline. The plain truth is, she is between these two factions, as between two millstones, and unless your Majesty look to it, to whose trust she is committed, she will be ground to powder, to an irreparable both dishonour and loss to this kingdom. And it is very remarkable that while both these press hard upon the Church of England, both of them cry out upon "persecution;" like froward children, which scratch and kick and bite, and yet cry out all the while, as if themselves were killed. Now, to the Romanist I shall say this:—The errors of the Church of Rome are grown now, many of them, very old; and when errors are grown by age and continuance to strength, they which speak for the truth, though it be far older, are ordinarily challenged for the bringers in of "new opinions." And there is no greater absurdity stirring this day in Christendom than that the reformation of an old corrupted Church, will we nill we, must be taken for the building of a new. And were not this so, we should never be troubled with that idle and impertinent question of theirs: "Where was your Church before Luther?" for it was just there, where theirs is now. One and the same Church still, no doubt of that; one in substance, but not one in condition of state and purity: their part of the same Church remaining in corruption, and our part of the same Church under reformation.17 The same Naaman, and he [xiv] a Syrian still; but leprous with them, and cleansed with us;—the same man still. And for the Separatist, and him that lays his grounds for separation or change of discipline, though all he says, or can say, be in truth of divinity, and among learned men little better than ridiculous, yet since these "fond opinions" have gained some ground among your people, to such among them as are wilfully set to "follow their blind guides" through thick and thin, till "they fall into the ditch together," [Matt. xy. 14.] I shall say nothing. But for so many of them as mean well, and are only misled by artifice and cunning; concerning them I shall say thus much only: They are bells of passing good metal, and tuneable enough of themselves and in their own disposition; and a world of pity it is that they are rung so miserably out of tune as they are, by them which have gotten power in and over their consciences. And for this there is yet remedy enough; but how long there will be, I know not.

   Much talking there is—bragging, your Majesty may call it—on both sides; and when they are in their ruff they both exceed all moderation and truth too,—so far till both lips [xv] and pens open for all the world like a purse without money; nothing comes out of this, and that which is worth nothing out of them. And yet this nothing is made so great, as if the salvation of souls—that great work of the Redeemer of the world, the Son of God—could not be effected without it. And while the one faction cries up the Church above the Scripture, and the other the Scripture to the neglect and contempt of the Church, which the Scripture itself teaches men both to honour and obey; they have so far endangered the belief of the one, and the authority of the other, as that neither hath its due from a great part of men; whereas, according to Christ’s institution, the Scripture, where it is plain, should guide the Church; and the Church, where there is doubt or difficulty, should expound the Scripture; yet so, as neither the Scripture should be forced, nor the Church so bound up, as that upon just and farther evidence she may not revise that which in any case hath slipped by her. What success this great distemper, caused by the collision of two such factions, may have, I know not, I cannot prophesy. This I know, that the use which wise men should make of other men’s falls, is not to fall with them; and the use which pious and religious men should make of these great flaws in Christianity, is not to join with them that make them, nor to help to dislocate those main bones in the body which being once put out of joint will not easily be set again. And though I cannot prophesy, yet I fear that atheism and irreligion gather strength while the truth is thus weakened by an unworthy way of contending for it. And while they thus contend, neither part consider that they are in a way to induce upon themselves and others that contrary extreme which they seem most both to fear and oppose.

   Besides, this I have ever observed, that many rigid professors have turned Roman Catholics, and in that turn have been more Jesuited than any other: and such Romanists as have changed from them have for the most part quite leaped over the mean, and been as rigid the other way as extremity itself. And this, if there be not both grace and wisdom to govern it, is a very natural motion: for a man is apt to think he can never run far enough from that which he once begins [xvi] to hate, and doth not consider therewhile, that where religion corrupted is the thing he hates, a fallacy may easily be put upon him; for he ought to hate the corruption which depraves religion, and to run from it; but from no part of religion itself, which he ought to love and reverence, ought he to depart. And this I have observed farther, that no one thing hath made conscientious men more wavering in their own minds, or more apt and easy to be drawn aside from the sincerity of religion professed in the Church of England, than the want of uniform and decent order in too many churches of the kingdom; and the Romanists have been apt to say, The houses of God could not be suffered to lie so nastily, as in some places they have done, were the true worship of God observed in them, or did the people think that such it were. It is true, the inward worship of the heart is the great service of God, and no service acceptable without it; but the external worship of God in His Church is the great witness to the world, that our heart stands right in that service of God. Take this away, or bring it into contempt, and what light is there left "to shine before men, that they may see our devotion, and glorify our Father which is in heaven?" [Matt. v. 16.] And to deal clearly with your Majesty, these thoughts are they, and no other, which have made me labour so much as I have done for decency and an orderly settlement of the external worship of God in the Church; for of that which is inward there can be no witness among men, nor no example for men. Now, no external action in the world can be uniform without some ceremonies; and these in religion, the ancienter they be the better, so they may fit time and place. Too many overburden the service of God, and too few leave it naked. And scarce anything hath hurt religion more in these broken times than an opinion in too many men, that because Rome had thrust some unnecessary and many superstitious ceremonies upon the Church, therefore the Reformation must have none at all; not considering therewhile, that ceremonies are the hedge that fence the substance of religion from all the indignities which profaneness and sacrilege too commonly put upon it. And a great weakness it is, not to see the strength which ceremonies, things weak enough in themselves, God knows,—add even [xvii] to religion itself; but a far greater to see it and yet to cry them down all and without choice, by which their most hated adversaries climbed up, and could not cry up themselves and their cause as they do but by them. And divines, of all the rest, might learn and teach this wisdom if they would, since they see all other professions which help to bear down their ceremonies, keep up their own therewhile, and that to the highest.

   I have been too bold to detain your Majesty so long; but my grief to see Christendom bleeding in dissension, and, which is worse, triumphing in her own blood, and most angry with them that would study her peace, hath thus transported me; for truly it cannot but grieve any man that hath bowels to see "all men seeking," but as S. Paul foretold, "their own things, and not the things which are Jesus Christ’s:" [Phil. ii. 21.] sua, "their own" surely; for the Gospel of Christ hath nothing to do with them: and to see religion so much, so zealously pretended and called upon, made but the stalking-horse to shoot at other fowl upon which their aim is set; in the meantime, as if all were truth and holiness itself, no salvation must be possible, did it lie at their mercy, but in the communion of the one, and in the conventicles of the other; as if either of these now were, as the Donatists of old reputed themselves, the only men in whom Christ at His coming to judgment should find faith. No, saith S. Augustine, and so I say with him, Da veniam, non credimus, "Pardon us, I pray, we cannot believe it."18 The Catholic Church of Christ is neither Rome, nor a conventicle. Out of that there is no salvation, I easily confess it. But out of Rome there is, and out of a conventicle too; salvation is not shut up into such a narrow conclave. In this ensuing Discourse, therefore, I have endeavoured to lay open those wider gates of the Catholic Church confined to no age, time, or place; nor knowing any bounds but that "faith which was once" [Jude 3.]—[xviii] and but once for all—"delivered to the saints." And in my pursuit of this way, I have searched after, and delivered with a single heart, that truth which I profess. In the publishing whereof I have obeyed your Majesty, discharged my duty to my power to the Church of England, "given account of the hope that is in me," [I Pet. iii. 15.] and so testified to the world that faith in which I have lived, and by God’s blessing and favour purpose to die; but, till death, shall most unfeignedly remain

Your Majesty’s
Most faithful Subject,

                                                             And

                                                       Most humble and obliged Servant,

                                                                                                 W. CANT.

Note: Initial number/letter, eg. iiia, indicates page number and letter of original footnote. Other endnotes have been gathered from marginal notes in LACT No. 11.

1:  iiia  [Laud’s first account of his "Conference with Fisher the Jesuit," published under the name of his Chaplain, Dr. Baylie, appeared under the title, "An Answere to Mr. Fisher’s Relation of a Third Conference betweene a certain B. (as he stiles him) and himselfe. The Conference was very private, till Mr. Fisher spread certaine Papers of it, which in many respects deserved an answere. Which is here given by R. B. Chapleine to the B. that was imployed in the Conference. London, printed by Adam Islip, 1624." It is appended to Dr. Francis White’s "Replie to Jesuit Fisher’s answere," &C. (Vide infra, p. 1. note b.) White’s book is dedicated to King James, to whom he was Chaplain.]

2:  ivb  May 24, 1622.

3:  ivc  One of these biases, is an aversion from all such truth as fits not our ends. And a luce veritatis aversus, [et] ob hoc luci veritatis adversus (fit), &c.—S. Augustin. cont. Adversarium Legis et Prophet. lib. ii. [cap. 7. Op., tom. viii col. 593. D.] And it is an easy transition, for a man that is averse from, to become adverse to, the truth.

4:  ivd  In his Epistle to the reader. [the Epistle … Editt. 1673, and 1686, "The Preface of W. I., the publisher of these Relations." is added in the appendix to this Dedication, No. 1. v. infra, pp. xxi-xxiii.]

5:  ive  Ibid.

6:  vf  These words were in my former epistle, [ie. in the short Epistle to the Reader, prefixed to Laud’s first account of the Conference, published under the name of R. B.] and A. C. checks at them, in defence of the Jesuit, and says: "That the Jesuit did not at all, so much as in speech and much less in papers, publish this or either of the other two Conferences [which he had] with D. White, until he was forced unto it by false reports, given out [about them] to his private disgrace and the prejudice of the Catholic cause. Nor then did he spread papers abroad, but only delivered a very few copies to special friends, and this not with intent to calumniate the Bishop, &c." — A. C. in his preface before his "Relation of this Conference [between a certain B. and M. Fisher, defended against the said B.’s Chaplain." A. C. p.37, This preface to the Relation, is added in the appendix to this Dedication, No IV. v. infra, p. xxxix.] Truly, I knew of no reports then given out to the prejudice of the Jesuit’s either person or cause. I was in a corner of the kingdom, where I heard little. But howsoever, here is a most plain confession by A. C. of that which he struggles to deny. He says, "He did not spread papers." What then? What? why "he did but deliver copies." Why, but doth not he that delivers copies, for instance, of a libel, spread it? Yea, "but he delivered but a very few copies."–[ibid. p. 38.] Be it so; I do not say how many he spread. He confesses the Jesuit delivered some, though very few; and he that delivers any, spreads it abroad. For what can he tell, when the copies are once out. of his power, how many may copy them out, and spread them farther? Yea, "but he delivered them to special friends."–[ibid. p. 38.] Be it so too: the more special friends they were to him, the less indifferent would they be to me, perhaps my more special enemies. Yea, but all this was " without an intent to calumniate me."–[ibid. p. 38.] Well, be that so too. But if I be calumniated thereby, his intention will not help it. And whether the copies, which he delivered, have not in them calumny against me, I leave to the indifferent reader of this Discourse to judge.

7:  vg  [Vide supra, note 2.]

8:  vih  [A. C.’s "Relation of the Conference," viz. the First Conference, between himself and White, is added in the appendix to this Dedication, No.III. His "Relation of the Conference," viz. the Third Conference, between Fisher (i.e. himself, A. C.) and Laud, and which appeared in the same volume with his "Relation of the First Conference," is incorporated in the body of the present edition.]

9:  [A full stop is inserted at this point in LACT 11. J.D.L.]

10:  vii/i  [Laud was sworn in Dean of the Chapel Royal, Octob. 16, 1626, and Privy Councillor, April 29, 1627. The illness to which Laud alludes, is mentioned in his Diary, 1629. "Aug. 14. I fell sick upon the way towards the Court, at Woodstock; I took up my lodging at my ancient friend’s house, Mr. Francis Windebank. There I lay in a most grievous burning fever, till Monday, Sept. 7, on which day I had my last fit. I was brought so low, that I was not able to return towards my own house at London, fill Tuesday, Octob. 29."]

11:  viiik  [This passage refers to the libels of Bastwick, Burton, and Prynne, who were censured in the Star-Chamber, June 14, 1637.]

12:  viiil  [Sed quid mirum? Verbum Dei nunquam tacet; sed non semper auditur.]—S. Augustin. Serm. [li. de concord. Matth. et Luc. olim Serm.] lxiii. de diversis, cap. 10. [Op., tom. v. col. 291. C.] He speaks of Christ, disputing in the temple with the elders of the Jews. And they heard Christ, the essential Word of the Father, with admiration to astonishment, yet believed Him not. S. Luke ii. 47. And the Word then spake to them, by a means they thought not of, namely, per Filium Dei in puero, "by the Son of God Himself, under the veil of our human nature."

13:  ixm  [It seems not improbable, that King Charles might have made this request on the occasion which is thus alluded to by Laud in his Diary. "1637. Octob. 22, Sunday.—A great noise about the perverting of the Lady Newport. Speech of it at the Council. My free speech there to the King, concerning the increase of the Roman party, the freedom at Durham House, the carriage of Mr. Walter Montague and Sir Toby Matthews. The Queen acquainted with all I said, that very night, and highly displeased with me, and so continues." This Lady Newport (Heylyn’s Life of Laud, p. 337.) was "a kinswoman of the Duke of Buckingham;" the Queen’s chapel was at Somerset (then called Durham) House; and Montague, a son of the Earl of Manchester, and Matthews, eldest son of the Archbishop of York, were two of the most distinguished persons who had conformed to the Church of Rome.]

14:  xn  Preface to the Relation of this Conference by A. C. [v. infra, p. xxxix]

15:  xo  And S. Augustine is very full against the use of mala retia, "unlawful nets;" and saith the fishermen themselves have greatest cause to take heed of them. [Ut si intra retia Domini bona piscis malus esset non tamen Pisces Domini sui malis retibus irretiret; hoc est, ut si haberet in Ecclesia vitam malam, non tamen illic institueret doctrinam malam ... Haec sunt mala retia, qae cavere debent praecipue piscatores: si tamen illa evangelica similitudine piscatores episcopi, vel inferioris ordinis ecclesiarum praepositi, intelligendi sunt, quia.dictum est, Venite, et faciam vos piscatores hominum. Retibus enim bonis capi possunt pisces et boni et mali; retibus autem malis caput non possum pisces boni. Quoniam in doctriria bona et bonus potest esse qui audit et facit, et malus qui audit et non facit: in doctrina vero mala, et qui eam veram putat, quamvis ei non obtemperet, malus est; et qui obtemperat, pejor est.]—S. Augustin. lib. de Fide et Operibils, cap. xvii. [Op., tom. vi. col. 183. F.]

16:  xiip  Apum [verol similitudine vesanum ardorem notat: [quia etsi] in illis [animalibus] non tantum est roboris mira tamen [est] excandescentia.—Calvin. in Psalm. cxviii. [12. Op., tom. iii p. 434. col. 2.]

17:  xiiiq  "There is no other difference between us and Rome than betwixt a Church miserably corrupted, and happily purged," &c.—Joseph Hall, Bishop of Exeter, in his "Apologetical Advertisement to the Reader," [appended to "The Old Religion," &c. the Third Edition,] p. 192. [194. ed. London, 1630.] approved by Thomas Morton, Bishop then of Coventry and Lichfield, now of Duresme, in the Letters printed by [Hall,] the Bishop of Exeter, in his Treatise called, "The Reconciler," [i.e. "An Epistle pacificatory of the seeming differences of opinion concerning the trueness and visibility of the Roman Church:"] p. 68. [ed. London, 1629. Bishop Morton’s words are: "And now remembering the accordance your Lordship hath with others touching the argument of your book, I must needs reflect upon myself; who have long since defended the same point, in the defence of many others."]—And Dr. Field, Of the Church, Appendix to the Third Part, chap. ii. [p. 880], where he cites Calvin to the same purpose; (Instit. lib. iv. cap. 2. § ll.) [ ... "I will first show that all our best and most renowned divines did ever acknowledge as much as I have written. 2. That the Roman Church is not the same now as it was when Luther began. And, 3. That we have not departed from the Church wherein our fathers lived and died, but only from the faction that was in it. Touching the first, M. Luther confesseth (lib. contr. Anabapt. ubi infra, p. 314. note f,) that much good, nay, that all good, and the very marrow and kernel of faith, piety, and Christian belief was, by the happy providence of God, preserved even in the midst of all the confusions of the papacy. M. Calvin in like sort showeth that the true Church remained under the papacy: Cum Dominus foedus suum, saith he, in Gallia, Italia, Germania, Hispania et Anglia deposuerit; ubi illae provinciae Antichristi tyrannide oppressae sunt, quo tamen foedus suum inviolabile maneret, Baptismum primo illic conservavit, foederis testimonium, qui ejus ore consecratus, invita humana impietate, vim suam retinet. Deinde sua providentia effecit, ut allia quoque reliquiae exstarent, ne Ecclesia prorsus interiret; &c.—Calvin. Op., tom. viii. p. 281. col. l.]

18:  xviir  [Sed nempe hoc est totum, quod nobis persuadere conaris, solos remansisse Rogatistas, qui catholici recte appellandi sint, ex observatione praeceptorum omnium divinorum atque omnium saeramentorum; et vos esse solos, in quibus inveniat fidem, cum venerit, Filius hominis. Da veniam, non credimus.]—S. Augustin. [ad Vincentium Rogatistam,] Epist. [xciii. olim] xlviii. [cap. 7. Op., tom. ii. col. 240. F.]

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